Apparently the parents don't feel guilty enough not to get divorced. Divorce isn't like a stroke or a heart attack; it doesn't just happen, especially after 43 years of marriage.
I think it's noteworthy that a mainstream publication would publish something suggesting that women change their standards. Of course we've seen things saying that men should change their standards and be more accepting of women who are overweight, have tattoos, a high body count, etc. But it's not effective to command people to be attracted to features to which they're not attracted. But in this case for female hypergamy, I think there's more malleability because what counts as high status is malleable.
I identify strongly with the adult children quoted in the WSJ excerpts. Christmas is one of the few times I see my parents due to travel distance, and it may be the only time of year I see my brother or cousins. While I enjoy time with them, I often feel like one side of my family tries to use me as a source of gossip about the other, even a decade after my parents’ divorce.
I’m willing to bet that the passing away of Greatest Generation grandparents, the prevalence of divorce among Boomer & early Gen-X parents and the foregone or delayed family formation by many Millennials and older Gen Z “kids”, will combine to bring about the collapse of family tradition for many. It is sad to consider (especially in light of losing my last grandparent this year), but on the other hand if I get to raise a family, it will be an exciting opportunity to start new or resurrect old traditions and forge new bonds.
The gaps between generations will kill family tradition the fastest. A 40 year old mother at 60 will have nothing in common with a 20 year old daughter or son and will be useless as a grandparent either due to old age, infirmity or death.
I had to laugh when I read Sarah Berstein’s opinion piece. Of course a playwright would be oblivious to reality. She is in one of the occupations where she literally invents reality. When the power goes out, the toilet backs up or she is being held at gun point one of those male breadwinners will have to come to her rescue. The vast, vast amount of jobs that require physical work are done by men. Reality always wins.
It reminds me of hoemath's drawings about how men rated below a 7 do not exist for women. I think it has something to do with the extension of the division of labor. That is, our society has reached a level of wealth and an extended division of labor such that women earning an income can hire men to do certain tasks, rather than rely on a father or husband or other male family member. Since these service workers aren't the objects of women's sexual interest, they don't exist to them, and so feminists actually think they need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
How true...until they need one. Check out the Bureau of Labor statistics and you will see that the most dangerous and physical jobs in the nation are done vastly by men. If there was ever "a day without men" like the feminists tried with "a day without women" a few years ago - the country would come to a standstill. And the play wouldn't go on.
"After a recent screening, a man approached Adams to ask if she had considered making a movie about a father “who has to go to work and worries if he can support his family or not,” a query both she and Heller responded to with guffaws. Heller said she had fielded a similar question from another male viewer asking, “When do we get the husband’s movie?”
“Luckily I was too tired to be rageful,” Adams said.
Heller began collecting what she called “defensive male responses” from the anonymous test screenings conducted by her studio, Searchlight Pictures. “People would write: ‘I don’t like how it made it seem like it was the husband’s fault.’ or ‘I didn’t like how that made me feel,’” she said.
>The male breadwinner norm has become a kind of cultural anchor that keeps us going around in circles, returning again and again to the gender dynamics we have tried to leave behind.
Ideas from the manosphere may be leaking into the culture, but it seems to me that one subtle consequence of lower fertility is that it's easier than ever to overestimate the role of culture on sex differences due to fewer adults being around young children of both sexes, and everyone growing up with fewer siblings for comparison.
It's unclear if Bernstein has kids, but I'm thinking not.
She can go on about "cultural anchors", but nothing communicated to me that girls are different quite like our daughter, at age 1, with zero encouragement, lunging towards the girl toy aisle that her older brother had heretofore treated as invisible, giggling with delight.
Close to 50 yrs ago, after the no-fault ("irretrievably broken") ground for divorce was added in Georgia, a superior court judge who handled all domestic relations cases in the circuit told me that he thought that it would take 2-3 generations after no-fault divorce was finally repealed to overcome the harm to society that it caused.
He was also of the opinion that in all cases of divorce with minor children, except for violence committed against the wife or children, the husband should be granted full custody of the children and should be required to have them live with him--in the same apt., mobile home, or house. He couldn't take them to his mother or his sister or anywhere else to live. They had to live with him. He said there would be a lot less divorce because most women would put up with just about anything to keep from losing the children, and most husbands would put up with just about anything to keep from having to take them.
He also had a saying he repeated often--Half a mother is better than no mother, and half a father is worth less than no father.
>the husband should be granted full custody of the children
This was traditional English common law, I believe. I'm not sure how it always worked out in practice though.
>He also had a saying he repeated often--Half a mother is better than no mother, and half a father is worth less than no father.
It's an interesting thought, but I have my doubts.
For example, if I think about abuse cases, my understanding (admittedly anecdotal) is that children whose father is not at all present are much more likely to be targeted and groomed than children whose father is half-present. Even to the point that, when a bunch of half-siblings by different men are living in the same household, those whose fathers have disappeared into the ether are at far more risk of abuse than those with fathers that stop by sometimes.
Speaking of Scandinavian countries, I read this piece yesterday from the BBC about a “soft girl” trend of young women quitting the careerist route and relying on their boyfriends.
I’m not sure how prevalent this actually is, but there is a movement of young women who reject the corporate vision of success for something more old-fashioned.
“It’s actually making their daughter feel bad when it’s the divorcing parents who ought to be feeling guilty.”
I can’t imagine imagining that the divorcing parents don’t feel guilty.
Apparently the parents don't feel guilty enough not to get divorced. Divorce isn't like a stroke or a heart attack; it doesn't just happen, especially after 43 years of marriage.
I think it's noteworthy that a mainstream publication would publish something suggesting that women change their standards. Of course we've seen things saying that men should change their standards and be more accepting of women who are overweight, have tattoos, a high body count, etc. But it's not effective to command people to be attracted to features to which they're not attracted. But in this case for female hypergamy, I think there's more malleability because what counts as high status is malleable.
I identify strongly with the adult children quoted in the WSJ excerpts. Christmas is one of the few times I see my parents due to travel distance, and it may be the only time of year I see my brother or cousins. While I enjoy time with them, I often feel like one side of my family tries to use me as a source of gossip about the other, even a decade after my parents’ divorce.
I’m willing to bet that the passing away of Greatest Generation grandparents, the prevalence of divorce among Boomer & early Gen-X parents and the foregone or delayed family formation by many Millennials and older Gen Z “kids”, will combine to bring about the collapse of family tradition for many. It is sad to consider (especially in light of losing my last grandparent this year), but on the other hand if I get to raise a family, it will be an exciting opportunity to start new or resurrect old traditions and forge new bonds.
Thanks, Mr. Renn! A blessed day to all!
The gaps between generations will kill family tradition the fastest. A 40 year old mother at 60 will have nothing in common with a 20 year old daughter or son and will be useless as a grandparent either due to old age, infirmity or death.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry about what happened to you.
I had to laugh when I read Sarah Berstein’s opinion piece. Of course a playwright would be oblivious to reality. She is in one of the occupations where she literally invents reality. When the power goes out, the toilet backs up or she is being held at gun point one of those male breadwinners will have to come to her rescue. The vast, vast amount of jobs that require physical work are done by men. Reality always wins.
It reminds me of hoemath's drawings about how men rated below a 7 do not exist for women. I think it has something to do with the extension of the division of labor. That is, our society has reached a level of wealth and an extended division of labor such that women earning an income can hire men to do certain tasks, rather than rely on a father or husband or other male family member. Since these service workers aren't the objects of women's sexual interest, they don't exist to them, and so feminists actually think they need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
How true...until they need one. Check out the Bureau of Labor statistics and you will see that the most dangerous and physical jobs in the nation are done vastly by men. If there was ever "a day without men" like the feminists tried with "a day without women" a few years ago - the country would come to a standstill. And the play wouldn't go on.
Off-topic: what happens when men attempt to get in the way of female self-pity and self-actualization...
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/06/movies/nightbitch-amy-adams-marielle-heller.html
"After a recent screening, a man approached Adams to ask if she had considered making a movie about a father “who has to go to work and worries if he can support his family or not,” a query both she and Heller responded to with guffaws. Heller said she had fielded a similar question from another male viewer asking, “When do we get the husband’s movie?”
“Luckily I was too tired to be rageful,” Adams said.
Heller began collecting what she called “defensive male responses” from the anonymous test screenings conducted by her studio, Searchlight Pictures. “People would write: ‘I don’t like how it made it seem like it was the husband’s fault.’ or ‘I didn’t like how that made me feel,’” she said.
“I’m like, ‘Sorry, white male, 47.’”"
On Bernstein's comment:
>The male breadwinner norm has become a kind of cultural anchor that keeps us going around in circles, returning again and again to the gender dynamics we have tried to leave behind.
Ideas from the manosphere may be leaking into the culture, but it seems to me that one subtle consequence of lower fertility is that it's easier than ever to overestimate the role of culture on sex differences due to fewer adults being around young children of both sexes, and everyone growing up with fewer siblings for comparison.
It's unclear if Bernstein has kids, but I'm thinking not.
She can go on about "cultural anchors", but nothing communicated to me that girls are different quite like our daughter, at age 1, with zero encouragement, lunging towards the girl toy aisle that her older brother had heretofore treated as invisible, giggling with delight.
On divorce, and its long-term effects:
Close to 50 yrs ago, after the no-fault ("irretrievably broken") ground for divorce was added in Georgia, a superior court judge who handled all domestic relations cases in the circuit told me that he thought that it would take 2-3 generations after no-fault divorce was finally repealed to overcome the harm to society that it caused.
He was also of the opinion that in all cases of divorce with minor children, except for violence committed against the wife or children, the husband should be granted full custody of the children and should be required to have them live with him--in the same apt., mobile home, or house. He couldn't take them to his mother or his sister or anywhere else to live. They had to live with him. He said there would be a lot less divorce because most women would put up with just about anything to keep from losing the children, and most husbands would put up with just about anything to keep from having to take them.
He also had a saying he repeated often--Half a mother is better than no mother, and half a father is worth less than no father.
>the husband should be granted full custody of the children
This was traditional English common law, I believe. I'm not sure how it always worked out in practice though.
>He also had a saying he repeated often--Half a mother is better than no mother, and half a father is worth less than no father.
It's an interesting thought, but I have my doubts.
For example, if I think about abuse cases, my understanding (admittedly anecdotal) is that children whose father is not at all present are much more likely to be targeted and groomed than children whose father is half-present. Even to the point that, when a bunch of half-siblings by different men are living in the same household, those whose fathers have disappeared into the ether are at far more risk of abuse than those with fathers that stop by sometimes.
I wonder if this has been measured.
Speaking of Scandinavian countries, I read this piece yesterday from the BBC about a “soft girl” trend of young women quitting the careerist route and relying on their boyfriends.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0j1wwypygxo.amp
I’m not sure how prevalent this actually is, but there is a movement of young women who reject the corporate vision of success for something more old-fashioned.