"In this vision of feminism, marriage is a trap, divorce is a superpower, and women are not so much people as Strong Female Characters."
We've now had multiple generations of American women who have grown up being encouraged to play a Strong Female Character rather than a real person, which too often results in repeated delays in starting their real, relatively hum-drum lives.
What they need to be doing is getting honest from the moment they start college, if not sooner, about how they are going to integrate these paths.
Women who want to have 1:1, personal friendships with men after they're married are clueless. Move on with your life, it's not high school or college anymore. While my wife and I have plenty of couple friends and while I consider many women my friends *through* our marriage, and while I work and volunteer with many great women who I admire, respect, etc., I can't imagine the need or the purpose of being a personal friend of another woman without my wife around.
The thought haunts me that women are like children who go off the rails without supervision. OTOH, the culture as a whole seems to have a strong infantilizing streak. Or perhaps that is a consequence of the former.
I feel a bit ashamed at these unwanted blasphemic thoughts.
In my 20s, I was terrified of horror stories of seemingly excellent wives going insane.
In my 40s, I’ve still only seen this happen with women that were clearly unmarriageable in the first place. I felt duty-bound to tell my oldest friend not to marry the woman he married. He still married her and paid the price. The other times, I bit my tongue.
Though I still hear stories on the Internet of men being blind-sided by good-seeming conservative Christian women. I still don’t know what to think of those cases — was it blindness, or were they really misled despite being wise as serpents?
I suspect that while it happens, it's probably an order of magnitude or two less frequently than the Internet would indicate, and a lot of those stories probably skip the part where those around them said "don't marry her."
Yes, I came to a similar conclusion as David some time back, that the system of older women mentoring younger women, especially young married women, has broken down in our society. Of course, one of the most extreme examples is that of mothers pressuring daughters to get an abortion. It's not likely a 'mentor' like that is going to be much use in any other area, either.
I believe that older women keep younger women socialized, just as men do to men. Unfortunately, this has broken down when freedom remains as the only ethical principle, but what women have done to women is especially damaging. And as Renn has pointed out, teaching in the church on gender roles has not kept up, to act as a counter.
Substack’s algorithm recently brought me to this guy also posting on the topic of men and women’s friendship and how much he values it. I engaged with him in the comments. Interesting writer, but divorced 5 times, which aligns with my mental model of a man who insists on female friends in middle-age. Still, I thought the piece was an interesting window into another way of life.
The idea of married people having opposite-sex friends is so alien to my life experience that I struggle to understand the very idea. It certainly doesn’t take any effort to avoid. I’m curious if the readership here is any different.
"Especially now, as I have decided on celibacy, I am comforted by friends with whom I can sip coffee and eat cookies and discuss the ups and the downs..."
Don't expect adulterous men to make any sense, as they cannot be trusted either. He is probably lying about most of it, and ignores the damage it does to the children involved in his numoerous conquests.
This quote really nails it:
"In this vision of feminism, marriage is a trap, divorce is a superpower, and women are not so much people as Strong Female Characters."
We've now had multiple generations of American women who have grown up being encouraged to play a Strong Female Character rather than a real person, which too often results in repeated delays in starting their real, relatively hum-drum lives.
What they need to be doing is getting honest from the moment they start college, if not sooner, about how they are going to integrate these paths.
Women who want to have 1:1, personal friendships with men after they're married are clueless. Move on with your life, it's not high school or college anymore. While my wife and I have plenty of couple friends and while I consider many women my friends *through* our marriage, and while I work and volunteer with many great women who I admire, respect, etc., I can't imagine the need or the purpose of being a personal friend of another woman without my wife around.
The thought haunts me that women are like children who go off the rails without supervision. OTOH, the culture as a whole seems to have a strong infantilizing streak. Or perhaps that is a consequence of the former.
I feel a bit ashamed at these unwanted blasphemic thoughts.
In my 20s, I was terrified of horror stories of seemingly excellent wives going insane.
In my 40s, I’ve still only seen this happen with women that were clearly unmarriageable in the first place. I felt duty-bound to tell my oldest friend not to marry the woman he married. He still married her and paid the price. The other times, I bit my tongue.
Though I still hear stories on the Internet of men being blind-sided by good-seeming conservative Christian women. I still don’t know what to think of those cases — was it blindness, or were they really misled despite being wise as serpents?
I suspect that while it happens, it's probably an order of magnitude or two less frequently than the Internet would indicate, and a lot of those stories probably skip the part where those around them said "don't marry her."
Yes, I came to a similar conclusion as David some time back, that the system of older women mentoring younger women, especially young married women, has broken down in our society. Of course, one of the most extreme examples is that of mothers pressuring daughters to get an abortion. It's not likely a 'mentor' like that is going to be much use in any other area, either.
I believe that older women keep younger women socialized, just as men do to men. Unfortunately, this has broken down when freedom remains as the only ethical principle, but what women have done to women is especially damaging. And as Renn has pointed out, teaching in the church on gender roles has not kept up, to act as a counter.
This might be helpful for your readers.
https://open.substack.com/pub/efdouglass/p/remarriage-after-divorce-to-another?r=2wbge&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Substack’s algorithm recently brought me to this guy also posting on the topic of men and women’s friendship and how much he values it. I engaged with him in the comments. Interesting writer, but divorced 5 times, which aligns with my mental model of a man who insists on female friends in middle-age. Still, I thought the piece was an interesting window into another way of life.
The idea of married people having opposite-sex friends is so alien to my life experience that I struggle to understand the very idea. It certainly doesn’t take any effort to avoid. I’m curious if the readership here is any different.
https://open.substack.com/pub/hugoschwyzer/p/can-men-and-women-be-friends-revisiting?r=1h6crc&utm_medium=ios
"Especially now, as I have decided on celibacy, I am comforted by friends with whom I can sip coffee and eat cookies and discuss the ups and the downs..."
Cue pajama boy meme.
Don't expect adulterous men to make any sense, as they cannot be trusted either. He is probably lying about most of it, and ignores the damage it does to the children involved in his numoerous conquests.