Interesting way to turn the conversation about limiting beliefs on its head.
On giving advice, here's some advice... here in a public forum which you write in, I think you have the obligation to teach the truth as you understand it. I happen to like the way you understand most truth you talk about which is why I subscribe. It helps crystalize other things I'm thinking about. You aren't accountable for how I fit it all together in my head puzzle. But if you and I were personal friends and I came to you for personalized advice on how to solve some personal problem in my life then I agree your hesitation to give out advice is warranted.
One reason I reject categorizing people as "left brain" or "right brain" and the like is because it easily (though not necessarily) becomes a limiting belief. I used to tutor college freshman in physics and sometimes the greatest obstacle was their own expectations of not being able to grasp the material.
A limiting belief I've had myself that at times holds me back is seeing myself as an "introvert". I wonder if extroverts experience anything similar?
Off-topic, the latest in an ongoing series: a progressive woman notices that boys are having some problems, and tries to solve them without giving a single inch to traditional concepts of masculinity and manhood...
Giving advice and guaranteeing a particular outcome are two different things; the former is good, while the latter goes too far. Advice can be directive (do this) or observational (here's what I've seen in the world and how it typically works). The Book of Proverbs does both. In addition, wisdom is still needed in the application of advice to a particular situation.
One thing you might consider in giving advice would be to regularly point people back to respected figures in their own lives to confirm that advice or to help apply it in their particular situation. If you give advice for young men, encourage them to consult as well with people close to them who do have skin in the game, e.g., father, grandfather, pastor, respected older Christian, etc.
I had a limiting belief that I wasn't a man meant for strength but for brain. I've recently started lifting weights and should have started a decade ago! In part, I started lifting so my son wouldn't have same limiting belief as me
Yes. My father, while very intelligent and intellectually curious, was very unathletic and out of shape. I grew up with the limiting belief that there are jocks and nerds, and I was a nerd, so of course I was going to go through life out of shape.
One positive of the broader, secular online right, especially where it converges with the manosphere, it's that it really discourages this way of thinking. "Do you even lift bro?"
Your point that people are going to receive advice from somebody if not from you is a valid one.
That somebody might be an internet podcaster, a rapper, a celebrity, and there is plenty of bad advice being given out there, and a dearth of basic sanity. So if you can offer some sound reasoning in competition to the other misleading advice, it could be worth doing.
Personally I am tempted to give advice all the time and I think much of it would be valuable, the fruit of 68 years of living, tons of Christian teaching imbibed through sermons, reading, etc. One sees, again, that in our culture people don't have the basic moral grounding to even weigh the decisions they make. Most of the time I restrain myself because it's too tempting to be a self-appointed nag and because I can see that no matter how articulate I am, the advice won't be received.
I have noticed (gratifyingly) the phenomenon where I'm talking to a friend and someone at the next table is obviously (though subtly) paying keen attention as if my words were manna from heaven. This though I was saying the most prosaic and obvious things. One time I was saying that even the most humble of jobs offered dignity and ought to be done responsibly and well and that it would be most rewarding to do so. This was a thought that was apparently new to the guy at the next table, a light bulb coming on.
Another time I was saying that cheating (sexually) in a relationship was a desperate crime and violated something sacred. The woman at the next table was obviously amazed at my moral clarity.
These pieces of obvious common sense are often no longer common in our culture where moral chaos and ignorance reign.
When I do offer advice I do it in the most low-key, casual fashion. "Well, I don't know, but if I were you I'd do 'x'". "Here's another way to think about it that might be useful". "Seems to me that if you do 'x', you're going to end up experiencing 'y' ". This despite the fact I sometimes feel tempted to scream "Are you insane?".
I watch for the tendency to be overbearing and so continually correct, probably overcorrect.
I see this post is somewhat rambling and makes me appear both self-absorbed and unsophisticated, but does represent some of my thoughts on the topic so I'm just going to take a chance and offer it as grist for the mill rather than a definitive answer.
I'm somewhat puzzled by this post, as you've given excellent advice in newsletters before. Your newsletters about divorce & masculine self-help content were great
I assume Aaron was discussing whether he ought to give more advice in the interpersonal realm, not the column, though. I wouldn't want this blog to drift too far into sermon territory, but that's my opinion only.
This sounds like the Dunning-Kruger effect. One area where I see this is that the best academics will be very shy about engaging in controversy, simply because they have a lot of complexities they want to get represented that a simple refutation would not include. But then someone like BAP comes along and just says whatever he thinks. Because BAP is extremely confident and has high quality knowledge in certain domains, then many manosphere bros simply dismiss refutations of him as "out of touch."
Do you consider yourself someone who doesn't give *personal* advice? That would make sense. Otherwise, I feel like your articles and podcasts are full of advice, implicit or explicit, in a general way--and they are stronger for it.
As I have gotten older and more grounded in biblical principles I do not hesitate now in giving advice unless someone specifically tells they do not want it.
Perhaps the most memorable advice I ever received was from a highly respected gentleman who told me “that’s not who you are” in response to a dubious plan of action I suggested.
I believe providing advice even if it is generic Biblical principles is a good thing. People are looking for answers and many of the answers they find are bad. Presenting simple principles like being honest are foreign concepts in modern culture.
>> I believe providing advice even if it is generic Biblical principles is a good thing
This is a good idea; in fact it's a better idea. That is, "generic ... principles" are things you are pretty safe in passing on, despite the "skin in the game" concern. Doctors and Lawyers who write general-audience articles face this all the time: "This is our current understanding of things in this arena, but it's not medical or legal advice. If you want *specific* medical or legal advice about your *specific* situation, ask your practitioner."
Interesting way to turn the conversation about limiting beliefs on its head.
On giving advice, here's some advice... here in a public forum which you write in, I think you have the obligation to teach the truth as you understand it. I happen to like the way you understand most truth you talk about which is why I subscribe. It helps crystalize other things I'm thinking about. You aren't accountable for how I fit it all together in my head puzzle. But if you and I were personal friends and I came to you for personalized advice on how to solve some personal problem in my life then I agree your hesitation to give out advice is warranted.
One reason I reject categorizing people as "left brain" or "right brain" and the like is because it easily (though not necessarily) becomes a limiting belief. I used to tutor college freshman in physics and sometimes the greatest obstacle was their own expectations of not being able to grasp the material.
A limiting belief I've had myself that at times holds me back is seeing myself as an "introvert". I wonder if extroverts experience anything similar?
Off-topic, the latest in an ongoing series: a progressive woman notices that boys are having some problems, and tries to solve them without giving a single inch to traditional concepts of masculinity and manhood...
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/opinion/boys-parenting-loneliness.html
Giving advice and guaranteeing a particular outcome are two different things; the former is good, while the latter goes too far. Advice can be directive (do this) or observational (here's what I've seen in the world and how it typically works). The Book of Proverbs does both. In addition, wisdom is still needed in the application of advice to a particular situation.
One thing you might consider in giving advice would be to regularly point people back to respected figures in their own lives to confirm that advice or to help apply it in their particular situation. If you give advice for young men, encourage them to consult as well with people close to them who do have skin in the game, e.g., father, grandfather, pastor, respected older Christian, etc.
I had a limiting belief that I wasn't a man meant for strength but for brain. I've recently started lifting weights and should have started a decade ago! In part, I started lifting so my son wouldn't have same limiting belief as me
Yes. My father, while very intelligent and intellectually curious, was very unathletic and out of shape. I grew up with the limiting belief that there are jocks and nerds, and I was a nerd, so of course I was going to go through life out of shape.
One positive of the broader, secular online right, especially where it converges with the manosphere, it's that it really discourages this way of thinking. "Do you even lift bro?"
Interesting column.
Your point that people are going to receive advice from somebody if not from you is a valid one.
That somebody might be an internet podcaster, a rapper, a celebrity, and there is plenty of bad advice being given out there, and a dearth of basic sanity. So if you can offer some sound reasoning in competition to the other misleading advice, it could be worth doing.
Personally I am tempted to give advice all the time and I think much of it would be valuable, the fruit of 68 years of living, tons of Christian teaching imbibed through sermons, reading, etc. One sees, again, that in our culture people don't have the basic moral grounding to even weigh the decisions they make. Most of the time I restrain myself because it's too tempting to be a self-appointed nag and because I can see that no matter how articulate I am, the advice won't be received.
I have noticed (gratifyingly) the phenomenon where I'm talking to a friend and someone at the next table is obviously (though subtly) paying keen attention as if my words were manna from heaven. This though I was saying the most prosaic and obvious things. One time I was saying that even the most humble of jobs offered dignity and ought to be done responsibly and well and that it would be most rewarding to do so. This was a thought that was apparently new to the guy at the next table, a light bulb coming on.
Another time I was saying that cheating (sexually) in a relationship was a desperate crime and violated something sacred. The woman at the next table was obviously amazed at my moral clarity.
These pieces of obvious common sense are often no longer common in our culture where moral chaos and ignorance reign.
When I do offer advice I do it in the most low-key, casual fashion. "Well, I don't know, but if I were you I'd do 'x'". "Here's another way to think about it that might be useful". "Seems to me that if you do 'x', you're going to end up experiencing 'y' ". This despite the fact I sometimes feel tempted to scream "Are you insane?".
I watch for the tendency to be overbearing and so continually correct, probably overcorrect.
I see this post is somewhat rambling and makes me appear both self-absorbed and unsophisticated, but does represent some of my thoughts on the topic so I'm just going to take a chance and offer it as grist for the mill rather than a definitive answer.
I'm somewhat puzzled by this post, as you've given excellent advice in newsletters before. Your newsletters about divorce & masculine self-help content were great
Agreed. A good measure of sanity offered here.
I assume Aaron was discussing whether he ought to give more advice in the interpersonal realm, not the column, though. I wouldn't want this blog to drift too far into sermon territory, but that's my opinion only.
This sounds like the Dunning-Kruger effect. One area where I see this is that the best academics will be very shy about engaging in controversy, simply because they have a lot of complexities they want to get represented that a simple refutation would not include. But then someone like BAP comes along and just says whatever he thinks. Because BAP is extremely confident and has high quality knowledge in certain domains, then many manosphere bros simply dismiss refutations of him as "out of touch."
Do you consider yourself someone who doesn't give *personal* advice? That would make sense. Otherwise, I feel like your articles and podcasts are full of advice, implicit or explicit, in a general way--and they are stronger for it.
As I have gotten older and more grounded in biblical principles I do not hesitate now in giving advice unless someone specifically tells they do not want it.
Perhaps the most memorable advice I ever received was from a highly respected gentleman who told me “that’s not who you are” in response to a dubious plan of action I suggested.
I believe providing advice even if it is generic Biblical principles is a good thing. People are looking for answers and many of the answers they find are bad. Presenting simple principles like being honest are foreign concepts in modern culture.
>> I believe providing advice even if it is generic Biblical principles is a good thing
This is a good idea; in fact it's a better idea. That is, "generic ... principles" are things you are pretty safe in passing on, despite the "skin in the game" concern. Doctors and Lawyers who write general-audience articles face this all the time: "This is our current understanding of things in this arena, but it's not medical or legal advice. If you want *specific* medical or legal advice about your *specific* situation, ask your practitioner."