I don’t know enough to hold forth on what is a prudent/pragmatic policy idea for our current situation versus not. But at the very least, I want to make a practice of lending public (i.e. non-anonymous/online) support to initiatives that specifically aim to help young men. In my (university) world, it’s still a bit transgressive to voice something like that despite the frequency with which I see this discussed online. Kudos to Sen Rubio.
I love the idea of letting high school students take the ASVAB, military testing standard. Not a few could have an egress from high school to training and work. Saves them time And us tax dollars, schools graduate far to many illiterates.
I agree with a number of the report's recommendations, but unfortunately our society's intoxication with feminism prevents us from encouraging young men in ways that are effective and natural.
I'm old enough, for example, to remember the marines' recruitment slogan, "The Marines are looking for a few good men." Such an approach and similar ones in other fields would be remedial. Needless to say, however, appeals to manhood would immediately meet with recrimination and lawsuits. I don't know why men can't see the severe constraint that feminism poses. Until this is more widely recognized, any solution to men's problems will not accomplish much.
Agree. Americans need to stop celebrating the "empowerment" of women and start embracing the naturally interdependent relationship between the sexes. Reality is feminism makes everyone miserable.
There is some good stuff in here, but Rubio doesn't really address the biggest challenge in getting these young men working, the average member of this group has morally decayed to a point where he has no value to a potential employer. On average, they are unreliable, dishonest and lazy. I haven't seen evidence they have high welfare usage, but I do see a lot of resumes where they have had six or more jobs in the last five years. I see the shift into negative world as a primary driver of this change. No institution is reinforcing virtue and work ethic for young men. Social pressure encourages vices like drug/alcohol abuse, gambling, etc.
Another one of his prescriptions that comes across as naive at best is adding shop classes and skilled trade classes to high schools. The best kinds of teachers for these classes are going to be unwilling to do the job because of the environment in public schools. Having to put up discipline policies that will punish the teacher far more severely than disruptive students and progressive, feminist administrators is not going to be appealing to these guys. It might be easier to attempt to divert these kids out of their current schools entirely and setup alternative high schools focused getting young men into skilled trade jobs. If he is really forward thinking and bold, they could do some significant damage to the education cartel.
A decade ago, joining the military was an excellent suggestion for men with these problems. I imagine some sort of trade-apprenticeship could be structured more like military service, but I'm not sure the powers that be would allow it to operate. It would need to be more a way of life, with some esprit de corps, rather than job or training. No, it would need support from the legal system that it wouldn't get. Traditional apprenticeship legally bound the apprentice to the teacher for several years, very similar to enlistment. This kind of indenture is necessary to make long term investment in developing these young men pay off. Of course, the apprentice also needs a big payoff at the end to make it worthwhile. Ah, well.
There are just some kinds of problems that modern societal arrangements can't handle. And because they can't handle them, those are exactly the sort of problems that proliferate. If a young man is not well formed by 18, the possibilities for reforming him are fewer than ever.
I had a great uncle from England who came up in the trade guilds. His dad was a pipe fitter. In accordance with the guild my uncle spent his high school years indentured with a carpenter, there he learned his trade. Came to America and married my grandfather's sister. Built houses, China cabinets, children's toys, green houses, cabinetry, all phases and Types of carpentry.
Yes, the problems on the lower end of the labor pool are bad and seem to be getting worse. I've been collecting anecdotes about it for a while -- and I notice most people offering the anecdotes to me have that old familiar attitude along the lines that "They just need to buckle down and man up" without thinking about the institutional problems contributing to this.
As for your second paragraph, it doesn't entirely solve the problems you describe, but we already have a system of schools for technical education, in the form of local community colleges. Ours is reportedly pretty good for this stuff, and from what I gather the instructors (Gen X and Boomer men mostly) seem to mostly fit the mold of what you'd expect of shop class teachers. Not feminized bureaucrats.
The solution would seem to be to leverage that system to get these sorts of young men taking those classes in high school. In many places, good students at local high schools already take classes at the community college for college credit. I did this and, along with AP credits, graduated college in 3 years.
What you don't hear about so much is bad high school students taking technical classes at these community colleges. If that option were available and could be used to substitute for the classes that they most hate, it would seem to be an easy sell for some of the fellas we're talking about, and it wouldn't require a radical restructuring of the education system (which, for the record, I'm not exactly against, but pragmatically it's easier to start with systems already in place).
I'm coming to the conclusion that to ask if something is politically palatable at the federal level is to ask, "Is it good for the DC bureaucracy?"
I don’t know enough to hold forth on what is a prudent/pragmatic policy idea for our current situation versus not. But at the very least, I want to make a practice of lending public (i.e. non-anonymous/online) support to initiatives that specifically aim to help young men. In my (university) world, it’s still a bit transgressive to voice something like that despite the frequency with which I see this discussed online. Kudos to Sen Rubio.
I love the idea of letting high school students take the ASVAB, military testing standard. Not a few could have an egress from high school to training and work. Saves them time And us tax dollars, schools graduate far to many illiterates.
I took the ASVAB in 11th grade at my school in 1988. Most every male did as well as a few femailes.
I agree with a number of the report's recommendations, but unfortunately our society's intoxication with feminism prevents us from encouraging young men in ways that are effective and natural.
I'm old enough, for example, to remember the marines' recruitment slogan, "The Marines are looking for a few good men." Such an approach and similar ones in other fields would be remedial. Needless to say, however, appeals to manhood would immediately meet with recrimination and lawsuits. I don't know why men can't see the severe constraint that feminism poses. Until this is more widely recognized, any solution to men's problems will not accomplish much.
Agree. Americans need to stop celebrating the "empowerment" of women and start embracing the naturally interdependent relationship between the sexes. Reality is feminism makes everyone miserable.
There is some good stuff in here, but Rubio doesn't really address the biggest challenge in getting these young men working, the average member of this group has morally decayed to a point where he has no value to a potential employer. On average, they are unreliable, dishonest and lazy. I haven't seen evidence they have high welfare usage, but I do see a lot of resumes where they have had six or more jobs in the last five years. I see the shift into negative world as a primary driver of this change. No institution is reinforcing virtue and work ethic for young men. Social pressure encourages vices like drug/alcohol abuse, gambling, etc.
Another one of his prescriptions that comes across as naive at best is adding shop classes and skilled trade classes to high schools. The best kinds of teachers for these classes are going to be unwilling to do the job because of the environment in public schools. Having to put up discipline policies that will punish the teacher far more severely than disruptive students and progressive, feminist administrators is not going to be appealing to these guys. It might be easier to attempt to divert these kids out of their current schools entirely and setup alternative high schools focused getting young men into skilled trade jobs. If he is really forward thinking and bold, they could do some significant damage to the education cartel.
A decade ago, joining the military was an excellent suggestion for men with these problems. I imagine some sort of trade-apprenticeship could be structured more like military service, but I'm not sure the powers that be would allow it to operate. It would need to be more a way of life, with some esprit de corps, rather than job or training. No, it would need support from the legal system that it wouldn't get. Traditional apprenticeship legally bound the apprentice to the teacher for several years, very similar to enlistment. This kind of indenture is necessary to make long term investment in developing these young men pay off. Of course, the apprentice also needs a big payoff at the end to make it worthwhile. Ah, well.
There are just some kinds of problems that modern societal arrangements can't handle. And because they can't handle them, those are exactly the sort of problems that proliferate. If a young man is not well formed by 18, the possibilities for reforming him are fewer than ever.
I had a great uncle from England who came up in the trade guilds. His dad was a pipe fitter. In accordance with the guild my uncle spent his high school years indentured with a carpenter, there he learned his trade. Came to America and married my grandfather's sister. Built houses, China cabinets, children's toys, green houses, cabinetry, all phases and Types of carpentry.
Yes, the problems on the lower end of the labor pool are bad and seem to be getting worse. I've been collecting anecdotes about it for a while -- and I notice most people offering the anecdotes to me have that old familiar attitude along the lines that "They just need to buckle down and man up" without thinking about the institutional problems contributing to this.
As for your second paragraph, it doesn't entirely solve the problems you describe, but we already have a system of schools for technical education, in the form of local community colleges. Ours is reportedly pretty good for this stuff, and from what I gather the instructors (Gen X and Boomer men mostly) seem to mostly fit the mold of what you'd expect of shop class teachers. Not feminized bureaucrats.
The solution would seem to be to leverage that system to get these sorts of young men taking those classes in high school. In many places, good students at local high schools already take classes at the community college for college credit. I did this and, along with AP credits, graduated college in 3 years.
What you don't hear about so much is bad high school students taking technical classes at these community colleges. If that option were available and could be used to substitute for the classes that they most hate, it would seem to be an easy sell for some of the fellas we're talking about, and it wouldn't require a radical restructuring of the education system (which, for the record, I'm not exactly against, but pragmatically it's easier to start with systems already in place).