Discussion about this post

User's avatar
TorqueWrench10's avatar

Great, now if we can convince the newcomers to stop showing in group preference and adopt this point of view we’ll be fine.

Pluralistic societies can work, as we see in the deeply “unpopular” but weirdly high functioning Austrian-Hungarian and British Empires. Both of which were incidentally more democratic than is commonly supposed. But it worked because if there ever was a conflict between local “norms” and to use the British as an example, English common law, English common law won. That part wasn’t up to a vote.

The problem as I see it, is that every group is allowed to advocate for its interests, even at the cost of others, except for one, and it’s not exactly the one you think. Next, these groups also have cultural attitudes on everything from law and order to social norms, that other groups will find intolerable.

Indians erecting a giant statue of a demon god should bother you. East Asians and Latins voting for more “familiar” forms of local government with attendant corruption should bother you.

Of course my answer will please no one but I believe it’s the only one. Our only real duty is to do what we believe God would wish us to. And it might not be what you think. It might actually be fighting, it might actually be yielding (Jeremiah was called basically a collaborator when he got the word that the invasion was coming and there was no fighting it). But I’m hard pressed to believe it ever entails thinking that idolatry, corruption, and governmental bullying is “just as good” because “America is always changing”.

NB I’m not saying you’re saying this, just that I think we’re in for a rougher ride than you might think.

Expand full comment
SlowlyReading's avatar

Excellent post. Rene Girard belongs with Nietzsche in the discussion of ressentiment.

The left relies on a relentless rhetorical sleight-of-hand in discussing pluralism: "Demographic diversity is a fact, THEREFORE you're not allowed to pass laws that reflect any values that we don't like." They go back and forth between fact and value as they see fit.

It goes to deep questions about democracy, liberalism and legitimacy: if there's one atheist kid in a 99% Christian public school, can that kid's parents and lawyers eliminate school prayer for everyone? Liberalism says yes (Engel v. Vitale). And yet, they still try to claim that this is "democratic." Curious!

Right from Day One, this was an issue in the U.S. IIRC, the various non-established religious groups agitated against the then-established churches in the thirteen states. Presbyterians, Methodists, Quakers, Catholics, Jews, etc. may not have agreed on anything, but they all objected to paying taxes to support the state church (Congregationalism in New England, Anglicanism in the mid-Atlantic and South).

The current Supreme Court case on queer books in public elementary schools (Mahmoud v. Taylor) is an interesting case. Muslims, Catholics, etc. all agree that they don't want gender propaganda given to their young children in public schools. This can be overstated - most nonwhite groups still vote majority Dem or supermajority Dem - but occasionally pluralism can be used to achieve conservative ends.

Expand full comment
30 more comments...

No posts