That may be true but I'm not sure it's complete. We need churches to reach the UMC and elites. What mainline Protestantism had was a self-confident culture that allowed it to engage those elites and which aspiring elites wanted to assimilate to, unlike the "cultural cringe" you see even in the evangelical splinter denoms. It was also par…
That may be true but I'm not sure it's complete. We need churches to reach the UMC and elites. What mainline Protestantism had was a self-confident culture that allowed it to engage those elites and which aspiring elites wanted to assimilate to, unlike the "cultural cringe" you see even in the evangelical splinter denoms. It was also part of a larger complex of institutions that formed people in those stratums to operate in a certain way. It wasn't the only one, but like all those now lost institutions, it created, as the Social Pathologist put it, a kind of "high minded Protestant man" that we no longer see much off. His idea of mainline Protestantism as a factory of George Baileys has something to it.
Sorry, I've been travelling this weekend so I missed this comment.
My basic problem with churches reaching to the UMC is the Matthew 19:24 problem. To enter the Kingdom is going to require UMC folks to leave behind the myth of meritocracy and the notion that their position in society is meaningful in any way to the Church as the Church. We can certainly disagree on the extent to which Upper Middle Class-ness in America is a marker of any kind of excellence, or whether it is merely credentialed flim-flam. But there is certainly the belief that UMC folks are simply better than everyone else and that their position is deserved rather than a matter of luck. Is your average UMC with a post-grad degree capable of accepting church discipline from a deacon who works as an auto mechanic? Can he sit quietly and accept discipleship from a nurse? Color me skeptical.
UMC is a culture, and in many ways it is a culture diametrically opposed to Christianity. Unfortunately for us, it already has a default religion, and it's a default religion that flatters the arrogance of those who think that diplomas are a substitute for wisdom and cash represents hard work rather than sliming up the corporate ladder. I think we're in a situation very similar to the ancient Roman Empire, and the Scribes and Disputers of This World, and their Mainline Post-Protestantism of the UMC hasn't yet met its Augustine of Hippo.
Unfortunately, the non-UMC cultures also lack virtues, in multiple senses of that term. It's easy to talk in the abstract about submitting to someone of a lower social class - which would indeed be difficult for the UMC - but at the same time, virtuous, competent non-UMC leaders are thin on the ground. It used to be that the proletariat had a lot of very high IQ, high capacity leaders. With our modern identification, sortation, formation, and relocation system, that's much less the case. The middle and lower classes are also increasingly dysfunctional, post-religious, etc. That is a leadership failing to be sure, but it still exists.
I believe the best future course involves UMC and elite defection to a new value and status system. That's what happened in post-Constantinian Rome with folks like Ambrose or those who chose ascetic vocations. The UMC Christian has to find a way to break from the secular value systems and embrace some alternative form.
That may be true but I'm not sure it's complete. We need churches to reach the UMC and elites. What mainline Protestantism had was a self-confident culture that allowed it to engage those elites and which aspiring elites wanted to assimilate to, unlike the "cultural cringe" you see even in the evangelical splinter denoms. It was also part of a larger complex of institutions that formed people in those stratums to operate in a certain way. It wasn't the only one, but like all those now lost institutions, it created, as the Social Pathologist put it, a kind of "high minded Protestant man" that we no longer see much off. His idea of mainline Protestantism as a factory of George Baileys has something to it.
Sorry, I've been travelling this weekend so I missed this comment.
My basic problem with churches reaching to the UMC is the Matthew 19:24 problem. To enter the Kingdom is going to require UMC folks to leave behind the myth of meritocracy and the notion that their position in society is meaningful in any way to the Church as the Church. We can certainly disagree on the extent to which Upper Middle Class-ness in America is a marker of any kind of excellence, or whether it is merely credentialed flim-flam. But there is certainly the belief that UMC folks are simply better than everyone else and that their position is deserved rather than a matter of luck. Is your average UMC with a post-grad degree capable of accepting church discipline from a deacon who works as an auto mechanic? Can he sit quietly and accept discipleship from a nurse? Color me skeptical.
UMC is a culture, and in many ways it is a culture diametrically opposed to Christianity. Unfortunately for us, it already has a default religion, and it's a default religion that flatters the arrogance of those who think that diplomas are a substitute for wisdom and cash represents hard work rather than sliming up the corporate ladder. I think we're in a situation very similar to the ancient Roman Empire, and the Scribes and Disputers of This World, and their Mainline Post-Protestantism of the UMC hasn't yet met its Augustine of Hippo.
Unfortunately, the non-UMC cultures also lack virtues, in multiple senses of that term. It's easy to talk in the abstract about submitting to someone of a lower social class - which would indeed be difficult for the UMC - but at the same time, virtuous, competent non-UMC leaders are thin on the ground. It used to be that the proletariat had a lot of very high IQ, high capacity leaders. With our modern identification, sortation, formation, and relocation system, that's much less the case. The middle and lower classes are also increasingly dysfunctional, post-religious, etc. That is a leadership failing to be sure, but it still exists.
I believe the best future course involves UMC and elite defection to a new value and status system. That's what happened in post-Constantinian Rome with folks like Ambrose or those who chose ascetic vocations. The UMC Christian has to find a way to break from the secular value systems and embrace some alternative form.