In fairness people in their 20s are economically being brutalized. The whole idea of “just gut it out” and calling younger generations soft is, I think, just not actually true.
Fact is, Aly Dee might be on to something but we’re still just thrashing around. Fact is there is no generic advice past doing what you think God is guiding you to do. Part of that I think is keeping your eyes open. Stop believing in cliches even church cliches just because everybody repeats them.
Of course the last thing we’ll do is stop subsidizing women at the expense of men so we’re basically stuck until we fix that.
As a Christian man whose attended men’s groups at churches, the advice feels equally absent or downright unproductive. I love church and God, but it was only until I turned to the “manosphere” and its adjacent podcasters/thinkers/promoters that I gained any success with women.
This should also be a concerning issue for churches. Because while one article/video is titled, “How to talk to girls”, 3 pieces of content later, you get one titled “How to handle multiple women at once”. Videos that trend from a natural God-honoring confidence can be interlaced with really abusive content, and it can be hard for young men to know the difference. This really bodes poorly for women in churches.
Apparently the author, Jake Dell, is a conservative pastor at an Operation Reconquista UCC church in Connecticut. He also has a Substack, though I haven't really read it. But I have been thinking about the fate of what he calls "zombie denominations" -- the rump Mainline organizations that are on track to persist with 9-10 figures of wealth but no congregation.
I believe I have said this before. Christian parents should be more involved in their children's preparation for marriage and therefore dating. As a father of three girls - two of which are now married; 15 years and 12 years - with children of their own, four and three, respectively. My wife and I focused them on the roles of being wives and mothers - not preparing them for college and career. We help guide them through the dating process and they were married at young ages, 20 and 19. Our third daughter - who is adopted - is 23 and is in a long-distance relationship with a young man of 25 whom I disciple on a weekly basis on a video service.
The point I am trying to make, is that in today's environment parents - especially Christian parents - should not give in to worldly wisdom of letting them figure it out on their own. When I was still employed and discussed my approach with other women in the workforce, they almost all said they wished their fathers had done the same thing.
I don't think this will be the exact path we're going down, but I respect it. Especially as it has borne fruit for you.
Our kids are young, and both sexes are represented, so I'm still thinking about how we'll navigate this. I'm with you on helping them navigate the world of dating. But I don't think I can only tell the boys, "Here's what I know about how to make a living." My wife and I are on the same page that we will teach how life is inevitably different for men and women, for fathers and mothers, and how a man's career is almost always more important than his wife's. And your career isn't what is going to "complete" you, to "self-actualize" you.
But if after all that my daughter really wants to go into finance, I don't see how it's going to lead to anything besides a broken relationship if I refuse to help her. And I don't expect we'll discourage college, but we might try harder, on the margin, to encourage her to stay closer to home, or to go to a Christian school that we respect.
I understand. All three of my daughters wanted to purse an occupation and we supported that, but we continually reminded them that God’s calling for their lives as we could see were to be wives and mothers. The two eldest attended cosmetology and culinary schools because that’s where their interests were. But both had boyfriends with a path towards marriage. The one attending culinary school was offered a six-month internship in Italy but turned it down to get married.
We can’t force anyone to do anything, but we can surely influence them. My point is that all I have seen written in Aaron’s posts is how bad it is for young men and women to meet, date and get married without any mention of parents. I agree that things are bad, but from where I have seen most parents- to include Christian parents - abdicate their responsibility in helping their children with the most important decision they will make and indeed have become worldly wise focusing them on jobs and careers.
Many of us have parents who unwittingly influenced us in the opposite direction through marital dysfunction, divorce, or absence. The dynamic between my (then-married, now-divorced, Catholic/agnostic) parents was such during my youth that I wanted nothing to do with marriage until becoming a Christian in college. All that to say, I applaud those who have successfully influenced their kids towards marriage!
Speaking of college, a half-dozen of my men’s campus ministry friends got married shortly after graduating or while still in school. We men all hold engineering degrees. Only one of the women these men married, went to the same state STEM/nursing college! The rest either went to other schools or didn’t go to college at all.
Since then, most unattached women I’ve met, godly or not, have pursued some sort of hard science, pre-med, or math-intensive degree. Only one—my ex-girlfriend—openly expressed desire for marriage and kids.
I’m glad it turned out well for you. I have to say I didn’t learn this from my parents. While they had a good marriage they didn’t encourage us to get married, but it was sort of expected.
What my wife and I came to understand from the Scripture is that God calls us to shepherd our children into their callings - which for the vast majority is marriage and family. The secular world is preaching a Marxist message of everyone is a worker and should be in the workforce in some way. With women their primary role are helpmates to their husbands and the bearer of children so families can be fruitful and multiply.
And though we didn’t have sons, I discipled my future son-in-laws in the Scripture but also in practical living such as how to make a budget; how to order their time and committing to physical exercise as well as how to make a living. God is good.
Thanks, Paul. Being saved and earning an engineering degree are big things!
Forgive me, for I may not have made my “college” point clear. My point was the handful of STEM-major women there were mostly uninterested or undesirable. Also, I was not among those fortunate enough to marry young; 10 years later, I’m still trusting and asking God to merge my path with that of the right woman in this lifetime.
We shouldn’t be surprised that dating even for Christians is a complete joke.
Many Christians today are ok with fornication, contraception and cohabitation. We’ll not see big changes until young men and women disavow these things in their lives and practically prepare for marriage.
Lastly, I find that many writers are simply content with describing what is happening and skip prescribing any clear and practical social changes. Is there anyone working on practical efforts to help faithful Christians marry?
If there are practical social changes, don't they have to be at the micro level? I imagine we're realistically talking about the church level, or optimistically maybe multiple local churches could collaborate on something.
I've had the thought that my town's evangelical churches (which generally get along well and have cooperated on a number of projects) ought to set up a network to help introduce young singles. But I'm not sure exactly what that would look like. My somewhat far-fetched idea is that our town (or perhaps county) should have an official evangelical yenta whose job is to just go around to meet eligible singles that our various churches nominate. Sits down with them, checks references, makes sure that, at least on the surface, they are eligible and living clean and good lives, and then makes introductions.
The yenta in question could be a man. Or a married couple. I'd volunteer for this job if I were retired, would gladly do it for free.
That sounds like a great idea. I’d like to see such a network in my area to bring together singles who are ACTUALLY interested in marriage and who would not otherwise meet. Perhaps I’ll brainstorm it more seriously and bring it up to respected elders.
In fairness people in their 20s are economically being brutalized. The whole idea of “just gut it out” and calling younger generations soft is, I think, just not actually true.
Fact is, Aly Dee might be on to something but we’re still just thrashing around. Fact is there is no generic advice past doing what you think God is guiding you to do. Part of that I think is keeping your eyes open. Stop believing in cliches even church cliches just because everybody repeats them.
Of course the last thing we’ll do is stop subsidizing women at the expense of men so we’re basically stuck until we fix that.
As a Christian man whose attended men’s groups at churches, the advice feels equally absent or downright unproductive. I love church and God, but it was only until I turned to the “manosphere” and its adjacent podcasters/thinkers/promoters that I gained any success with women.
This should also be a concerning issue for churches. Because while one article/video is titled, “How to talk to girls”, 3 pieces of content later, you get one titled “How to handle multiple women at once”. Videos that trend from a natural God-honoring confidence can be interlaced with really abusive content, and it can be hard for young men to know the difference. This really bodes poorly for women in churches.
This piece from American Reformer was interesting, seems relevant to some of Aaron's themes:
https://americanreformer.org/2025/02/americas-zombie-protestant-denominations-and-the-coming-land-grab/
Apparently the author, Jake Dell, is a conservative pastor at an Operation Reconquista UCC church in Connecticut. He also has a Substack, though I haven't really read it. But I have been thinking about the fate of what he calls "zombie denominations" -- the rump Mainline organizations that are on track to persist with 9-10 figures of wealth but no congregation.
I believe I have said this before. Christian parents should be more involved in their children's preparation for marriage and therefore dating. As a father of three girls - two of which are now married; 15 years and 12 years - with children of their own, four and three, respectively. My wife and I focused them on the roles of being wives and mothers - not preparing them for college and career. We help guide them through the dating process and they were married at young ages, 20 and 19. Our third daughter - who is adopted - is 23 and is in a long-distance relationship with a young man of 25 whom I disciple on a weekly basis on a video service.
The point I am trying to make, is that in today's environment parents - especially Christian parents - should not give in to worldly wisdom of letting them figure it out on their own. When I was still employed and discussed my approach with other women in the workforce, they almost all said they wished their fathers had done the same thing.
I don't think this will be the exact path we're going down, but I respect it. Especially as it has borne fruit for you.
Our kids are young, and both sexes are represented, so I'm still thinking about how we'll navigate this. I'm with you on helping them navigate the world of dating. But I don't think I can only tell the boys, "Here's what I know about how to make a living." My wife and I are on the same page that we will teach how life is inevitably different for men and women, for fathers and mothers, and how a man's career is almost always more important than his wife's. And your career isn't what is going to "complete" you, to "self-actualize" you.
But if after all that my daughter really wants to go into finance, I don't see how it's going to lead to anything besides a broken relationship if I refuse to help her. And I don't expect we'll discourage college, but we might try harder, on the margin, to encourage her to stay closer to home, or to go to a Christian school that we respect.
I understand. All three of my daughters wanted to purse an occupation and we supported that, but we continually reminded them that God’s calling for their lives as we could see were to be wives and mothers. The two eldest attended cosmetology and culinary schools because that’s where their interests were. But both had boyfriends with a path towards marriage. The one attending culinary school was offered a six-month internship in Italy but turned it down to get married.
We can’t force anyone to do anything, but we can surely influence them. My point is that all I have seen written in Aaron’s posts is how bad it is for young men and women to meet, date and get married without any mention of parents. I agree that things are bad, but from where I have seen most parents- to include Christian parents - abdicate their responsibility in helping their children with the most important decision they will make and indeed have become worldly wise focusing them on jobs and careers.
Many of us have parents who unwittingly influenced us in the opposite direction through marital dysfunction, divorce, or absence. The dynamic between my (then-married, now-divorced, Catholic/agnostic) parents was such during my youth that I wanted nothing to do with marriage until becoming a Christian in college. All that to say, I applaud those who have successfully influenced their kids towards marriage!
Speaking of college, a half-dozen of my men’s campus ministry friends got married shortly after graduating or while still in school. We men all hold engineering degrees. Only one of the women these men married, went to the same state STEM/nursing college! The rest either went to other schools or didn’t go to college at all.
Since then, most unattached women I’ve met, godly or not, have pursued some sort of hard science, pre-med, or math-intensive degree. Only one—my ex-girlfriend—openly expressed desire for marriage and kids.
I’m glad it turned out well for you. I have to say I didn’t learn this from my parents. While they had a good marriage they didn’t encourage us to get married, but it was sort of expected.
What my wife and I came to understand from the Scripture is that God calls us to shepherd our children into their callings - which for the vast majority is marriage and family. The secular world is preaching a Marxist message of everyone is a worker and should be in the workforce in some way. With women their primary role are helpmates to their husbands and the bearer of children so families can be fruitful and multiply.
And though we didn’t have sons, I discipled my future son-in-laws in the Scripture but also in practical living such as how to make a budget; how to order their time and committing to physical exercise as well as how to make a living. God is good.
Thanks, Paul. Being saved and earning an engineering degree are big things!
Forgive me, for I may not have made my “college” point clear. My point was the handful of STEM-major women there were mostly uninterested or undesirable. Also, I was not among those fortunate enough to marry young; 10 years later, I’m still trusting and asking God to merge my path with that of the right woman in this lifetime.
We shouldn’t be surprised that dating even for Christians is a complete joke.
Many Christians today are ok with fornication, contraception and cohabitation. We’ll not see big changes until young men and women disavow these things in their lives and practically prepare for marriage.
Lastly, I find that many writers are simply content with describing what is happening and skip prescribing any clear and practical social changes. Is there anyone working on practical efforts to help faithful Christians marry?
If there are practical social changes, don't they have to be at the micro level? I imagine we're realistically talking about the church level, or optimistically maybe multiple local churches could collaborate on something.
I've had the thought that my town's evangelical churches (which generally get along well and have cooperated on a number of projects) ought to set up a network to help introduce young singles. But I'm not sure exactly what that would look like. My somewhat far-fetched idea is that our town (or perhaps county) should have an official evangelical yenta whose job is to just go around to meet eligible singles that our various churches nominate. Sits down with them, checks references, makes sure that, at least on the surface, they are eligible and living clean and good lives, and then makes introductions.
The yenta in question could be a man. Or a married couple. I'd volunteer for this job if I were retired, would gladly do it for free.
That sounds like a great idea. I’d like to see such a network in my area to bring together singles who are ACTUALLY interested in marriage and who would not otherwise meet. Perhaps I’ll brainstorm it more seriously and bring it up to respected elders.
Regarding the world of podcasters who are massively popular but unknown to those over 40, Ted Gioia has much to say:
https://www.honest-broker.com/p/the-6-new-rules-of-communicating
https://www.honest-broker.com/p/mainstream-is-now-fringe-and-fringe