I would hope the young guy does not give up on the church, but that's not to say his pain is not real. It's bad out there and the churches just won't be there to help. It's just not their place. Let's be realistic. Older people will not lift a finger to help the young; mentorship, much less guiding the young, whether they be kin or not, towards marriage, is a relic. I hope the young people can bring it back; but that sort of thing does not exist with the so-called 'greatest generation'/Boomers/Xers, etc. And there is a temptation to date secular women - they won't employ the doublespeak and seeming hypocrisies of the 'church girl'. They will be more honest, perhaps. But everything will just get harder without a common moral framework in Christianity. Even most friendships will end or fade without a moral basis. One has to be discerning. Does the church girl enjoy all the same creature comforts as the secular girl? Does she want to travel? Eat out a lot? Watch Netflix movies, reels? Does she gossip a lot? Glued to social media? Is she fastidious about diets, fashion, exercise? In other words - is she functionally secular. If she's seeking her friend group for advice, she might be looking more for status validation then relationship guidance. Most young women do take a status hit, in the short term, with marriage. It's why the numbers look so bad.
I feel for all of the Christian men and non-Christian men struggling to find a wife. Here is my recommendation from a 70-year-old who has been happily married 44 years with three daughters - two of which are married with their own children and the last one in a serious relationship that will hopefully lead to marriage.
Go to a older married Christian couple whom you trust and respect (if your own parents don't fit the bill) and ask them to help you find a wife. This may sound very old-fashioned, but I know from my own experience many older married Christian couple know single Christian women who are looking for marriage and family.
Not only ask them to help you find a spouse but ask them to disciple you in preparing for marriage. From what I am reading on this site is you are on your own - or looking to some internet influencer for help. You are not on your own - and internet influencers are looking for clicks and subscribers.
Your suggestion greatly assumes that older married people as a group genuinely care about helping single Christians find spouses and form families.
I would suggest that church communities take on the collective burden of starting a personal classifieds page where local Christian singles can identify themselves as looking for a spouse and/or also looking for marriage-related counsel from older married couples. Or communities can just have a old school bulletin board where men and women can post their personals ads.
I'm not assuming anything. There are older, mature married Christian couples who don't care, but there are those - like my wife and I and others I know - that do care and have and would be willing to do assist in the future. Those men looking for a wife should seek them out - and vice a versa.
I have no objection to your suggestion, but what is needed is a more personal, human to human approach rather than another social media-driven approach.
How is a busy single man with many work obligations supposed to find these older married couples who want to help him find a wife?
A practical roadmap could be helpful to accompany your suggestion. Perhaps older married couples could advertise their matchmaking help and marriage counsel in the local church newsletter?
Well my assumption is that the Christian men are going to church so that’s where they would find them. For the larger churches a notice in the bulletin could help.
But this is a matter of priorities. If the single man is really wanting to find a wife then instead of wasting his time searching the internet, bars, small groups to refocus his efforts on finding a married couple to assist him. And again, married couples should be looking within their church (and elsewhere such as their work, civic and church groups) for these men and women to assist. There used to be in Jewish communities (not sure if they exist today) matchmakers.
My main point is that there is help out there and they don’t need to go it alone which is what I have seen from these blogs and articles.
My take is that the man initially did well with the single lady because she was excited about a new relationship but over time she soured on him as his negatives became more apparent. The woman was looking for an excuse to break up with him, and her single friends helpfully obliged. My wife thinks that there may be something to the crab bucket theory, but I think that it could simply be that her friends wanted to provide support as they sensed she was feeling ambivalent. However, the married women knew that every man has negatives, so rejecting a man for having negatives may not be a good idea. If a man is so attractive that he appears to have few negatives to a particular woman, that man could probably find someone more attractive than the particular woman. It is a mistake for a woman to expect that her husband would have few negatives -- if that were the case, he would be out of her league. Married women were willing to compromise in order to get married, but the single friends were not willing to compromise and thus remain unmarried. That's a fine choice to make, but a single woman needs to be mature enough to recognize that is what she is doing.
I have heard, I think from Rob Henderson, that women tend to be higher in neuroticism than men. That is true of the women I know, including myself. I don't think I'm high on the scale of neuroticism compared with other women, but even so, my husband has a huge impact tempering my tendency to worry and act out of fear. I wonder if the longer a woman is living on her own or mainly with other women the higher in neuroticism she becomes?
If I'm right, it might help to try to find a woman with a close relationship with her dad and/ or brother and when she's doubting ask her to get his opinion?
Side note: I've also noticed that older, single women tend towards being hypochondriac.
I've also wondered if we in the church need to start free Christian matchmaking services as this seems to be an area where many are struggling. However, I'm not sure what would be the ideal format.
I’d happily start a matchmaking service if Americans were open to receiving help. Most people in large American cities do NOT want and do NOT offer help.
It can be a little like looking for a job. Network, network, network. Talk to your friends--who's hiring, or who knows a nice, single lady? Ideally, getting a job referral or getting fixed up with someone by a mutual friend can be the best way. Alternatively, looking at classified ads or dating apps is a numbers game. Looking at lots of openings or meeting many people, most of them are not good matches, but eventually (especially if you keep a positive attitude and make it fun), you may find a great-match job or relationship.
I don’t agree because at least with a job there’s at least clear alignment on who is a good candidate. Hiring can be color-blind and merit-based. Dating is neither color-blind nor merit-based.
I have tried to 'help' some Christian single ladies but they are pretty picky and not open to changing themselves so it really didn't work. It's hard to know what would actually be helpful to people. To some extent I think has to be an in-person, numbers game. I worry for my kids, nephew, nieces. But my husband says they'll be fine. Stop worrying. LOL
Marriage is hard but good and demographics is destiny -so I really pray we, the church can figure out a better way of helping people.
Thank you! This explains my experience of ‘helping’ people with social introductions and then running into the reality that many Christian singles are not open to changing their romance and marriage expectations to fit reality.
I'm a Christian man in my late 20's actively looking for a wife. This week's digest and last week's digest articulate a number of the reasons why I'm not looking in the church to find a wife, and why I've used dating apps instead.
A couple years ago, I attended a worship event for young Christian professionals (20's and 30's) in my area. It was put on by a handful of nondenominational evangelical churches in and around my suburb. Most of those attending were single and ostensibly open to a relationship.
Despite all this, I was blown away by the relationship-negative messaging at the event. Multiple times during the service, both in the message and *during the worship*, sentiments like "if you're not absolutely completely positive that your relationship (E: is) honoring to God, you should break up" were expressed. While obviously that sentiment is true when interpreted strictly, young people (particularly young women) in a smoke-and-lights worship setting will inevitably interpret this is as a struggle session encouraging a breakup.
The alternative these people present to having a fun, loving, productive relationship is to ensure congregants are living the "holiest" lives they can. The practical ramifications of this ridiculous, Quakerish sentiment are indulging in meaningless self-flagellation, constant reconfiguration of the emotions, and accomplishing nothing tangible with your life -- this is framed as "holiness." (I believe TLP calls this narcissism.)
Between this event and other negative experiences I've had dating in the church, including some similar to what your reader has expressed, I've stopped pursuing women at church. The revealed preference is that this isn't something people want out of church anymore, nor is it something church leaders care to encourage. In fact, churches deploying rhetoric like the above actively take pride in breaking up relationships, not in building them. There's exceptions of course -- my brother is engaged to a girl he met at his church, but the culture there actively encourages and supports marriage, especially among young people.
Dating apps have treated me far better. I've enjoyed nearly every experience I've had, and I've learned something from each of them.
This tracks with some of my own experience, especially when I was a young man. I received some messaging like this and I have OCD/Scrupulosity. Not exactly a formula for relationship success. I wish someone had said the things you said here about the stupidity of this way of thinking to me when I was in my 20s.
I've found that single-sex lonely hearts clubs (of either sex) tend to talk a lot of trash about the opposite sex. Even when I'm at the table with a bunch of single ladies!
Sorry, it's not very winsome.
The unsuccessful hate the successful in almost every realm.
Side note: For some reason, this reminded me of this old trick. If your significant other has a friend (of their same sex, assuming you're in a hetero relationship) you find annoying or otherwise dislike being around, make some casual comments to your SO about how good looking/well-dressed/charming they are. Make them as naturally as possible (e.g., "so-and-so looked so nice tonight" and don't overstate the case (that is, don't compliment their personality if you've previously complained about it). The friend will soon be excluded from your orbit.
I would suggest to your reader-correspondent that he focus his search for a wife on women in their 20s, rather than the 31-34-year-olds who have treated him this way.
Actions speak louder than words. Whatever she may tell suitors - and whatever she may tell herself - the fact that a woman is 31+ years old and still single (not even engaged) belies her claims to want marriage and a family. I'm sure there are the proverbial exceptions that prove the rule, but I've never met one in the flesh.
**real challenges of a relationship with a military officer living overseas**
I understand this Christian man's frustration in his search for a wife, but I think the solution is within reach and doesn't relate to the supposed flaws of a single woman's friend group. While dating can be especially challenging for servicemen, there are practical ways to find a wife.
For Christian military men seeking a wife, I'd suggest focusing on two promising paths: First, consider connecting with Christian women in the communities/countries where you're currently stationed. Many local Christian women (if there are any in say Germany) might be drawn to the idea of marriage to an American serviceman. Second, working with a Christian matchmaker (if you find a good one...any recommendations from the newsletter community?) could help you find women who are specifically open to and excited about being a military wife.
I deeply appreciate the sacrifices our servicemen make for our country. The frequent moves and uncertainty of military life ask a lot not just of them, but of their wives too. While it's understandable that some women feel hesitant about leaving behind their established lives, there are definitely adventurous, faith-filled women who would welcome building a life together within the military community.
For men who are in military service and are looking for wives, it's worth taking the time to find a wife who shares your vision for life on a practical level. The right woman is out there – someone who sees relocating not as leaving things behind, but as an opportunity to build something meaningful together.
I met my wife 38 years ago through a personal ad (after meeting many ladies that way). Online dating services are the modern equivalent of personal ads in the old days. While there are all kinds of people participating (including dishonest), you may be able to find a good match. My son met his wonderful wife though a secular dating app. He specified one key word he was looking for: "Christian".
A tendency in human nature: people want what they cannot have (reverse psychology). I speculate that the male writer may have acted too interested too soon, causing the lady to not find him attractive enough. Had he perhaps kept her a little more at arm's length, and made her work harder for his attention, she might have yearned more for him (regardless of her friends).
I agree that playing games is not good, but unfortunately, restraining your enthusiasm is sometimes necessary to gain respect. It's just a fact of life. Throwing yourself at someone with more enthusiasm than the other currently feels is often a turnoff. I learned this the hard way as a nerdy engineer, during 10 years of seeking a wife, that the ladies I acted too interested in, lost interest in me. Eventually, after meeting many, many ladies, God brought the right match into my life, and she proposed to me on our third date. I was *shocked*, and said, whoa, slow down, we barely know each other. After 5 months, she was crying one evening. Why? "You won't marry me! (sob)". I sighed, yes I guess it's the right time finally, and I proposed. We've been happily married 37 years. But I had to learn a little "street smarts" about not throwing myself at people, like I had in my earlier years.
As a 53 year old single never married man, who has been a Christian since his teens, the experience of the guy that wrote you largely rings true for me, even if it hasn't been my specific experience. After having a few brief relationships in my teens and early to mid 20s, I went to seminary/grad school in my early 30s, and many of the women I met there had the above vibe about them. In some cases, it felt like even the attempt to get to know them was rebuffed.
I think Christians, at least of the evangelical variety, often have the tendency to overcomplicate and over spiritualize relationships. As your correspondent also noted, I recognize that I'm also a big part of the problem, with character flaws, wounds, etc. Given those things, I've pretty much resigned myself to being single forever.
Never lose hope! I met my wife 38 years ago through a personal ad (after meeting many ladies that way). Online dating services are the modern equivalent of personal ads in the old days. While there are all kinds of people participating (including dishonest), you may be able to find a good match. My son met his wonderful wife though a secular dating app. He specified one key word he was looking for: "Christian".
Thanks. I guess, theoretically, anything is possible, but I think the probability is somewhere between low and non-existent. I'm not even sure I want to try again. It's always been a stressful experience that ends with heartache and disappointment. After my last relationship, which was 12 years ago, ended I was lost for a while. Sometimes I feel like I'm still lost.
I can relate. As an only child, I got crushes on many ladies and repeatedly rejected, so I became very depressed. A good shrink helped me tremendously, teaching me improved social skills, relaxation techniques, cognitive therapy (thinking accurately, instead of exaggerated, unrealistic worries). And, most importantly: stop looking so hard for the ideal marriage partner--meet and go out with some women you know you could never marry, to gain experience with different personalities and types of people. With more social interactions, I gained confidence and felt much better. Even though they didn't lead to my ideal relationship, I didn't care so much. As my skills improved, I became more personable and attractive. Practice makes perfect. As I refined my personal ad, eventually one of the responding ladies was the right, God-given, great match, who was crazy about me, and I with her. My prayers were answered (but I had to work for it %-).
I would not comment on relationships nor on women's thinking processes. I think I have preferences, but no positive experience. Most of what you wrote, however, rang true to me. Nothing in my experience makes sense. It is unfathomable. The thing that I am most convinced of is the title, Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars. We appear to be from separate planets. Despite modern thinking, sex separate from procreation is incomprehensible. It is more like a release of lightening than anything else in nature, more capable of destruction than anything positive.
Allow me to suggest that your correspondent may have dodged the proverbial bullet. I’m not a fan of pathologizing behavior, but I will say, once you’re familiar with the concept of borderline personality disorder, it explains a lot about dating. I don’t know if the women from the story are actually borderline any more than I know if someone washing his hands has OCD, but clearly there’s a mechanism at work, and it’s unlikely to change if the relationship progressed. It’s probably better that the girls’ trip happened two months into the relationship rather than five years in. Anecdotally, it seems subclinical borderline behavior is becoming more common, but you’re better off avoiding potential partners (male or female) who behave that way.
I haven't been impressed by the behavior of women in the Christian dating scene, although it's hard to know how much sabotage is going on. (What *do* they talk about in their women's bible studies?) I do see a lot of indecisiveness, pickiness, and passivity, and most women seem to have a "default to 'no'" mindset. Ghosting is rampant, and some women have a habit of making up lies to justify avoiding dates, which is something that really sticks in my craw.
Call me a cynic, but I've reached the conclusion that most single Christian women just aren't very interested in men (certainly not the imperfect men available!) and would rather stay single.
There is definitely something to what this man is saying. But here's a thought experiment: would things have gone differently if these ladies didn't have their gaggle of single friends sowing doubts? Might he be married to one of these women today in the absence of their friend group? Somehow I doubt it.
In my experience, if a Christian woman is still unmarried after age 35, it's generally because she suffers from pathological indecisiveness.
I'm not sure it is as simple as saying an unmarried woman at 35 is indecisive. I don't think many young American men and women actively prioritize marriage as a life goal. Both men and women are guilty of similar levels of skepticism and apathy about marriage.
I would hope the young guy does not give up on the church, but that's not to say his pain is not real. It's bad out there and the churches just won't be there to help. It's just not their place. Let's be realistic. Older people will not lift a finger to help the young; mentorship, much less guiding the young, whether they be kin or not, towards marriage, is a relic. I hope the young people can bring it back; but that sort of thing does not exist with the so-called 'greatest generation'/Boomers/Xers, etc. And there is a temptation to date secular women - they won't employ the doublespeak and seeming hypocrisies of the 'church girl'. They will be more honest, perhaps. But everything will just get harder without a common moral framework in Christianity. Even most friendships will end or fade without a moral basis. One has to be discerning. Does the church girl enjoy all the same creature comforts as the secular girl? Does she want to travel? Eat out a lot? Watch Netflix movies, reels? Does she gossip a lot? Glued to social media? Is she fastidious about diets, fashion, exercise? In other words - is she functionally secular. If she's seeking her friend group for advice, she might be looking more for status validation then relationship guidance. Most young women do take a status hit, in the short term, with marriage. It's why the numbers look so bad.
I feel for all of the Christian men and non-Christian men struggling to find a wife. Here is my recommendation from a 70-year-old who has been happily married 44 years with three daughters - two of which are married with their own children and the last one in a serious relationship that will hopefully lead to marriage.
Go to a older married Christian couple whom you trust and respect (if your own parents don't fit the bill) and ask them to help you find a wife. This may sound very old-fashioned, but I know from my own experience many older married Christian couple know single Christian women who are looking for marriage and family.
Not only ask them to help you find a spouse but ask them to disciple you in preparing for marriage. From what I am reading on this site is you are on your own - or looking to some internet influencer for help. You are not on your own - and internet influencers are looking for clicks and subscribers.
Your suggestion greatly assumes that older married people as a group genuinely care about helping single Christians find spouses and form families.
I would suggest that church communities take on the collective burden of starting a personal classifieds page where local Christian singles can identify themselves as looking for a spouse and/or also looking for marriage-related counsel from older married couples. Or communities can just have a old school bulletin board where men and women can post their personals ads.
See this example from Redeemer NYC, it could be adapted to a personals ad page - https://www.redeemer.com/classifieds
Another example from hipster Williamsburg, Brooklyn - https://www.bkreader.com/featured-news/heartbreak-in-brooklyn-as-viral-love-wall-ends-amid-dispute-9532915
I'm not assuming anything. There are older, mature married Christian couples who don't care, but there are those - like my wife and I and others I know - that do care and have and would be willing to do assist in the future. Those men looking for a wife should seek them out - and vice a versa.
I have no objection to your suggestion, but what is needed is a more personal, human to human approach rather than another social media-driven approach.
How is a busy single man with many work obligations supposed to find these older married couples who want to help him find a wife?
A practical roadmap could be helpful to accompany your suggestion. Perhaps older married couples could advertise their matchmaking help and marriage counsel in the local church newsletter?
Well my assumption is that the Christian men are going to church so that’s where they would find them. For the larger churches a notice in the bulletin could help.
But this is a matter of priorities. If the single man is really wanting to find a wife then instead of wasting his time searching the internet, bars, small groups to refocus his efforts on finding a married couple to assist him. And again, married couples should be looking within their church (and elsewhere such as their work, civic and church groups) for these men and women to assist. There used to be in Jewish communities (not sure if they exist today) matchmakers.
My main point is that there is help out there and they don’t need to go it alone which is what I have seen from these blogs and articles.
Keep your women away from divorced wives. They get in their heads and unsettle them.
My take is that the man initially did well with the single lady because she was excited about a new relationship but over time she soured on him as his negatives became more apparent. The woman was looking for an excuse to break up with him, and her single friends helpfully obliged. My wife thinks that there may be something to the crab bucket theory, but I think that it could simply be that her friends wanted to provide support as they sensed she was feeling ambivalent. However, the married women knew that every man has negatives, so rejecting a man for having negatives may not be a good idea. If a man is so attractive that he appears to have few negatives to a particular woman, that man could probably find someone more attractive than the particular woman. It is a mistake for a woman to expect that her husband would have few negatives -- if that were the case, he would be out of her league. Married women were willing to compromise in order to get married, but the single friends were not willing to compromise and thus remain unmarried. That's a fine choice to make, but a single woman needs to be mature enough to recognize that is what she is doing.
I have heard, I think from Rob Henderson, that women tend to be higher in neuroticism than men. That is true of the women I know, including myself. I don't think I'm high on the scale of neuroticism compared with other women, but even so, my husband has a huge impact tempering my tendency to worry and act out of fear. I wonder if the longer a woman is living on her own or mainly with other women the higher in neuroticism she becomes?
If I'm right, it might help to try to find a woman with a close relationship with her dad and/ or brother and when she's doubting ask her to get his opinion?
Side note: I've also noticed that older, single women tend towards being hypochondriac.
I've also wondered if we in the church need to start free Christian matchmaking services as this seems to be an area where many are struggling. However, I'm not sure what would be the ideal format.
I’d happily start a matchmaking service if Americans were open to receiving help. Most people in large American cities do NOT want and do NOT offer help.
“You’re on your own, kid” is the governing ethos.
It can be a little like looking for a job. Network, network, network. Talk to your friends--who's hiring, or who knows a nice, single lady? Ideally, getting a job referral or getting fixed up with someone by a mutual friend can be the best way. Alternatively, looking at classified ads or dating apps is a numbers game. Looking at lots of openings or meeting many people, most of them are not good matches, but eventually (especially if you keep a positive attitude and make it fun), you may find a great-match job or relationship.
I don’t agree because at least with a job there’s at least clear alignment on who is a good candidate. Hiring can be color-blind and merit-based. Dating is neither color-blind nor merit-based.
I have tried to 'help' some Christian single ladies but they are pretty picky and not open to changing themselves so it really didn't work. It's hard to know what would actually be helpful to people. To some extent I think has to be an in-person, numbers game. I worry for my kids, nephew, nieces. But my husband says they'll be fine. Stop worrying. LOL
Marriage is hard but good and demographics is destiny -so I really pray we, the church can figure out a better way of helping people.
Thank you! This explains my experience of ‘helping’ people with social introductions and then running into the reality that many Christian singles are not open to changing their romance and marriage expectations to fit reality.
I'm a Christian man in my late 20's actively looking for a wife. This week's digest and last week's digest articulate a number of the reasons why I'm not looking in the church to find a wife, and why I've used dating apps instead.
A couple years ago, I attended a worship event for young Christian professionals (20's and 30's) in my area. It was put on by a handful of nondenominational evangelical churches in and around my suburb. Most of those attending were single and ostensibly open to a relationship.
Despite all this, I was blown away by the relationship-negative messaging at the event. Multiple times during the service, both in the message and *during the worship*, sentiments like "if you're not absolutely completely positive that your relationship (E: is) honoring to God, you should break up" were expressed. While obviously that sentiment is true when interpreted strictly, young people (particularly young women) in a smoke-and-lights worship setting will inevitably interpret this is as a struggle session encouraging a breakup.
The alternative these people present to having a fun, loving, productive relationship is to ensure congregants are living the "holiest" lives they can. The practical ramifications of this ridiculous, Quakerish sentiment are indulging in meaningless self-flagellation, constant reconfiguration of the emotions, and accomplishing nothing tangible with your life -- this is framed as "holiness." (I believe TLP calls this narcissism.)
Between this event and other negative experiences I've had dating in the church, including some similar to what your reader has expressed, I've stopped pursuing women at church. The revealed preference is that this isn't something people want out of church anymore, nor is it something church leaders care to encourage. In fact, churches deploying rhetoric like the above actively take pride in breaking up relationships, not in building them. There's exceptions of course -- my brother is engaged to a girl he met at his church, but the culture there actively encourages and supports marriage, especially among young people.
Dating apps have treated me far better. I've enjoyed nearly every experience I've had, and I've learned something from each of them.
E: a word
This tracks with some of my own experience, especially when I was a young man. I received some messaging like this and I have OCD/Scrupulosity. Not exactly a formula for relationship success. I wish someone had said the things you said here about the stupidity of this way of thinking to me when I was in my 20s.
I've found that single-sex lonely hearts clubs (of either sex) tend to talk a lot of trash about the opposite sex. Even when I'm at the table with a bunch of single ladies!
Sorry, it's not very winsome.
The unsuccessful hate the successful in almost every realm.
Side note: For some reason, this reminded me of this old trick. If your significant other has a friend (of their same sex, assuming you're in a hetero relationship) you find annoying or otherwise dislike being around, make some casual comments to your SO about how good looking/well-dressed/charming they are. Make them as naturally as possible (e.g., "so-and-so looked so nice tonight" and don't overstate the case (that is, don't compliment their personality if you've previously complained about it). The friend will soon be excluded from your orbit.
I would suggest to your reader-correspondent that he focus his search for a wife on women in their 20s, rather than the 31-34-year-olds who have treated him this way.
Actions speak louder than words. Whatever she may tell suitors - and whatever she may tell herself - the fact that a woman is 31+ years old and still single (not even engaged) belies her claims to want marriage and a family. I'm sure there are the proverbial exceptions that prove the rule, but I've never met one in the flesh.
**real challenges of a relationship with a military officer living overseas**
I understand this Christian man's frustration in his search for a wife, but I think the solution is within reach and doesn't relate to the supposed flaws of a single woman's friend group. While dating can be especially challenging for servicemen, there are practical ways to find a wife.
For Christian military men seeking a wife, I'd suggest focusing on two promising paths: First, consider connecting with Christian women in the communities/countries where you're currently stationed. Many local Christian women (if there are any in say Germany) might be drawn to the idea of marriage to an American serviceman. Second, working with a Christian matchmaker (if you find a good one...any recommendations from the newsletter community?) could help you find women who are specifically open to and excited about being a military wife.
I deeply appreciate the sacrifices our servicemen make for our country. The frequent moves and uncertainty of military life ask a lot not just of them, but of their wives too. While it's understandable that some women feel hesitant about leaving behind their established lives, there are definitely adventurous, faith-filled women who would welcome building a life together within the military community.
For men who are in military service and are looking for wives, it's worth taking the time to find a wife who shares your vision for life on a practical level. The right woman is out there – someone who sees relocating not as leaving things behind, but as an opportunity to build something meaningful together.
I met my wife 38 years ago through a personal ad (after meeting many ladies that way). Online dating services are the modern equivalent of personal ads in the old days. While there are all kinds of people participating (including dishonest), you may be able to find a good match. My son met his wonderful wife though a secular dating app. He specified one key word he was looking for: "Christian".
Personal ads had no pictures and required meeting in person to explore a connection. Online dating is not the same.
A tendency in human nature: people want what they cannot have (reverse psychology). I speculate that the male writer may have acted too interested too soon, causing the lady to not find him attractive enough. Had he perhaps kept her a little more at arm's length, and made her work harder for his attention, she might have yearned more for him (regardless of her friends).
Unpopular opinion, but I take the view that playing games like this is a bad idea.
I agree that playing games is not good, but unfortunately, restraining your enthusiasm is sometimes necessary to gain respect. It's just a fact of life. Throwing yourself at someone with more enthusiasm than the other currently feels is often a turnoff. I learned this the hard way as a nerdy engineer, during 10 years of seeking a wife, that the ladies I acted too interested in, lost interest in me. Eventually, after meeting many, many ladies, God brought the right match into my life, and she proposed to me on our third date. I was *shocked*, and said, whoa, slow down, we barely know each other. After 5 months, she was crying one evening. Why? "You won't marry me! (sob)". I sighed, yes I guess it's the right time finally, and I proposed. We've been happily married 37 years. But I had to learn a little "street smarts" about not throwing myself at people, like I had in my earlier years.
You should read Vox Days blog Sigma Game. The last two posts were about this very subject:
https://open.substack.com/pub/sigmagame/p/sabotage
As a 53 year old single never married man, who has been a Christian since his teens, the experience of the guy that wrote you largely rings true for me, even if it hasn't been my specific experience. After having a few brief relationships in my teens and early to mid 20s, I went to seminary/grad school in my early 30s, and many of the women I met there had the above vibe about them. In some cases, it felt like even the attempt to get to know them was rebuffed.
I think Christians, at least of the evangelical variety, often have the tendency to overcomplicate and over spiritualize relationships. As your correspondent also noted, I recognize that I'm also a big part of the problem, with character flaws, wounds, etc. Given those things, I've pretty much resigned myself to being single forever.
Never lose hope! I met my wife 38 years ago through a personal ad (after meeting many ladies that way). Online dating services are the modern equivalent of personal ads in the old days. While there are all kinds of people participating (including dishonest), you may be able to find a good match. My son met his wonderful wife though a secular dating app. He specified one key word he was looking for: "Christian".
Thanks. I guess, theoretically, anything is possible, but I think the probability is somewhere between low and non-existent. I'm not even sure I want to try again. It's always been a stressful experience that ends with heartache and disappointment. After my last relationship, which was 12 years ago, ended I was lost for a while. Sometimes I feel like I'm still lost.
I can relate. As an only child, I got crushes on many ladies and repeatedly rejected, so I became very depressed. A good shrink helped me tremendously, teaching me improved social skills, relaxation techniques, cognitive therapy (thinking accurately, instead of exaggerated, unrealistic worries). And, most importantly: stop looking so hard for the ideal marriage partner--meet and go out with some women you know you could never marry, to gain experience with different personalities and types of people. With more social interactions, I gained confidence and felt much better. Even though they didn't lead to my ideal relationship, I didn't care so much. As my skills improved, I became more personable and attractive. Practice makes perfect. As I refined my personal ad, eventually one of the responding ladies was the right, God-given, great match, who was crazy about me, and I with her. My prayers were answered (but I had to work for it %-).
I would not comment on relationships nor on women's thinking processes. I think I have preferences, but no positive experience. Most of what you wrote, however, rang true to me. Nothing in my experience makes sense. It is unfathomable. The thing that I am most convinced of is the title, Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars. We appear to be from separate planets. Despite modern thinking, sex separate from procreation is incomprehensible. It is more like a release of lightening than anything else in nature, more capable of destruction than anything positive.
Allow me to suggest that your correspondent may have dodged the proverbial bullet. I’m not a fan of pathologizing behavior, but I will say, once you’re familiar with the concept of borderline personality disorder, it explains a lot about dating. I don’t know if the women from the story are actually borderline any more than I know if someone washing his hands has OCD, but clearly there’s a mechanism at work, and it’s unlikely to change if the relationship progressed. It’s probably better that the girls’ trip happened two months into the relationship rather than five years in. Anecdotally, it seems subclinical borderline behavior is becoming more common, but you’re better off avoiding potential partners (male or female) who behave that way.
I haven't been impressed by the behavior of women in the Christian dating scene, although it's hard to know how much sabotage is going on. (What *do* they talk about in their women's bible studies?) I do see a lot of indecisiveness, pickiness, and passivity, and most women seem to have a "default to 'no'" mindset. Ghosting is rampant, and some women have a habit of making up lies to justify avoiding dates, which is something that really sticks in my craw.
Call me a cynic, but I've reached the conclusion that most single Christian women just aren't very interested in men (certainly not the imperfect men available!) and would rather stay single.
This tracks...
There is definitely something to what this man is saying. But here's a thought experiment: would things have gone differently if these ladies didn't have their gaggle of single friends sowing doubts? Might he be married to one of these women today in the absence of their friend group? Somehow I doubt it.
In my experience, if a Christian woman is still unmarried after age 35, it's generally because she suffers from pathological indecisiveness.
That, and your chances of having children with her drop precipitously. (Starts at 30, really)
I'm not sure it is as simple as saying an unmarried woman at 35 is indecisive. I don't think many young American men and women actively prioritize marriage as a life goal. Both men and women are guilty of similar levels of skepticism and apathy about marriage.
"Pathological indecisiveness" is a great way of putting it.